Nobel Peace Prize

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:52 pm

Sparkling4Him wrote:

I would venture a guess and say b??

I was surprised when I found out, as he got into office only 2 weeks before the nomination deadline. And laughed to myself that he won it on a day when he met with military leaders to discuss upping the war in Afghanistan!

I agree with you ER, I think he has a good chance to work for peace/diplomacy in his term.

Let me first say that at the moment Obama is my commander and chief, being so I will die on his orders for any worthy cause. But as a student of war and politics he it is also my duty to evaluate all leaders involved in a conflict and conflict is ongoing. So stepping out of the uniform for a second let me give you my opinion (though I haven't had much time to study world politics lately).

First of all Obama has made no extraordinary move toward peace in his presidency. The removal of combat troops from Iraq was already scheduled long before he went into office. The Corps has already moved all assault elements out of Iraq as of the orders of the Commandant. All troops left from the army as well are not front-line units, this too was scheduled before Obama was in office by our nations top generals. Second important thing is the war in Afghanistan. It was a year and a half ago when the Taliban picked up activity in that area. Backed by international funding and international manpower they correctly picked Afghanistan as the most opportune location to take on American military forces. After the initial push back in 2001 by Assault elements the forces were scaled back to more of security elements aka army forces. The actual power of US forces was shifted to Iraq for the invasion in 2003 and these elements stayed active till late 2006 where the insurgency in Iraq had sustained far to much damage. During and after this time until mid 2008 to security level in Afghanistan was so low the insurgency was able to build back up in Afghanistan. In 2008 assault elements started to be deployed back to Afghanistan notably 2/7 who occupied around half the country with a single battalion (and a few International units but around 1500). Unfortunately in terms of peace 2/7 eliminated a regimental size of insurgents (aprox 7000 so high utility of force) this stirred up the hornets nest so to speak. And in late 2008 the decision to up troop power in Afghanistan. Once Obama took office he decided to accelerate the process including sending ill prepared units over. This is not a move toward peace as the Taliban has been willing to work out a peace agreement for some time. But I actually commend Obama for not trying to make a deal with the devil. However he is not a peaceful leader.

I could also go into all the smaller conflicts. Some people know about some they don't. The ongoing ghost wars the US takes part in. Obama has made no effort to stop these conflicts because doing so would be unethical.

My big issue with having a president that received to peace prize in his first year is that it makes us look weaker to powers that we need to keep a show of force on. But I am also focused more on eliminating and containing threats than most. Still he is not a peaceful leader.

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:52 pm

Thomas wrote:

Elisabeth wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Don't worry, Elisabeth, you didn't overstate things. I have certain politicians that I will never vote for either, Obama being one. Another being the truant governor of my state, who just happens to be campaigning for the Republican nomination in 2012 already (and is one of the leading candidates for said nomination). Nice little quandary I could find myself in that year, isn't it? Rolling Eyes

Vote 3rd Party! Yay!

That's what I did last year. I think our country will see a 3rd Party elected to President before too much longer, 'cause lots of people are getting fed up with both main parties.

I voted 3rd party on both the major races on my ballot last year. Razz

I agree with your assessment though. If the 2012 race is Obama vs. Pawlenty, we'll see a 3rd party candidate in the White House.

I would bet a lot of meney that we won't.

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:58 pm

vigilance009 wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Elisabeth wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Don't worry, Elisabeth, you didn't overstate things. I have certain politicians that I will never vote for either, Obama being one. Another being the truant governor of my state, who just happens to be campaigning for the Republican nomination in 2012 already (and is one of the leading candidates for said nomination). Nice little quandary I could find myself in that year, isn't it? Rolling Eyes

Vote 3rd Party! Yay!

That's what I did last year. I think our country will see a 3rd Party elected to President before too much longer, 'cause lots of people are getting fed up with both main parties.

I voted 3rd party on both the major races on my ballot last year. Razz

I agree with your assessment though. If the 2012 race is Obama vs. Pawlenty, we'll see a 3rd party candidate in the White House.

I would bet a lot of money that we won't.

I think we are moving closer to having a 3rd Party, but I still agree with Peter that it probably won't be in 2012, no matter who runs. The whole 3rd Party vote last time was something in the 3-5% range, I think...it'd take a HUGE upswing in that, as well as having most of the support go to the same person, in order for a 3rd Party to win.

So, assuming there isn't a candidate that I can truly support, I'll still be voting 3rd Party...but I don't expect any 3rd Party to win next time.

_________________
...they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Acts 17:11

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:02 pm

I was shocked and disgusted to hear that Obama won the Peace Prize... it does make the prize not seem worth much, which is sad.

As to why I hold that opinion I wholly agree with Elisabeth... I am upset he won the PP because he hasn't done anything to bring peace, but at the same time I did not vote for him and he is bringing a lot of change to America that is not going to fix the problems we are in... he is a swindler and liar, in my opinion, but he is the President, unfortunately and we are moving fast toward Socialism.

_________________
~Stay at home wife to Timothy ~10/07~ and Mommy to Tirzah ~12/31/08~

Adoptive Mommy to:
*BurntIre*
Linz

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:24 pm

Obama didn't deserve it ( the prize), plan and simple.

_________________
Are you locked up in a world
That's been planned out for you?
Are you feeling like a social tool without a use?
Scream at me until my ears bleed
I'm taking heed just for you

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:07 pm

I didn't know he got it and I don't need to know why. Very Happy

All I know is that he didn't deserve it.
There are a few reasons that I don't support Obama. He is WAY too similar to a few people from history. (If I say who, I will probably be killed, although some of you would probably agree with me.) I personally think he's a total socialist who leans toward being communist. You can kill me again, but that's what I think.
One thing that I believe with all my heart, (no offense to you third party people) is that the third party votes gave Obama the election. He was disliked enough that he wouldn't have gotten in if the conservative vote hadn't been split.

Sorry, folks. Smile

I'm too into politics and stuff.

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:18 pm

The conservative vote being split was why we wound up with John McCain winning the primaries... Razz

I think it was an incredibly stupid move to award Obama the Peace Prize, personally. Can someone name one thing he's done to deserve it?

Though it did give me some laughs... lots of Twitter people were spoofing off of it yesterday. Laughing

(if anyone's interested, #nobelol is the hashtag)

_________________

Forum Family
*BurntIre* ~ Sister
prissyprincess ~ Sister
PinkQT ~ Sister
songoftherose ~ Aunt (ant)
Russ ~ Uncle
Jessica ~ Aunt
Brittany ~ Mom
butterflychicka ~ Sister
Sparkling4Him ~ Sister
liberatedcaptive ~ Sister

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:38 pm

RebeccaMc wrote:

I personally think he's a total socialist who leans toward being communist.

According to Marx socialism is the system of government put in place to eventually overthrow the capitalist power. Communism is a very different system that is intended to be put in place after socialism. According to Marx's definition there have never been any communist countries both the USSR and China (the big 2) have never reached the threshold. So to say he is a socialist is to say he is headed down the Marxist path. Communist theory being the biggest killer in the 20th century is probably something to be avoided when trying to keep people alive which is generally to goal of peace.

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:51 pm

RebeccaMc wrote:

One thing that I believe with all my heart, (no offense to you third party people) is that the third party votes gave Obama the election. He was disliked enough that he wouldn't have gotten in if the conservative vote hadn't been split.

Umm...the numbers don't support this. Razz

Obama got 53% of the popular vote, McCain got 46%. That leaves 1% of the popular vote for all the third parties. So, even if McCain had that, he would've had 47% of the popular vote - still not enough. (Oh, and the electoral votes were even more drastically different...so, McCain would've stood even less chance there.)

Lincoln only got in because of a split vote...and that was quite as bad...but...Obama wasn't a split vote thing. Razz

I don't know enough about the primaries to know if Linz is right there.

_________________
...they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Acts 17:11

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:55 pm

I do know that Linz is right there. We watched the primaries end on TV, and each state had like 45% for McCain and 20% for Huckabee and Romney.

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:57 am

I'm amused and also very interested that those who seem to have good hopes of Obama (i.e. so far me and Larissa) are not American.... Over here in England, he is very popular; I expect you are already fully aware of much the British disliked Bush (an opinion fully shared by myself), so we have high hopes for his presidency. It's interesting to see that you people who are actually under him are much less keen.

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:47 am

EnglishRose wrote:

I'm amused and also very interested that those who seem to have good hopes of Obama (i.e. so far me and Larissa) are not American.... Over here in England, he is very popular; I expect you are already fully aware of much the British disliked Bush (an opinion fully shared by myself), so we have high hopes for his presidency. It's interesting to see that you people who are actually under him are much less keen.

Yes, it is interesting! I must admit, I'm loving these discussion (healthcare/nobel prize) that reveal more of the American worldview...so, so different to Australian. And although I don't think I would have voted for Obama, I wouldn't have voted for McCain either...

_________________
*Larissa*

It may not be your day, but it may be your moment

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:50 am

Sparkling4Him wrote:

EnglishRose wrote:

I'm amused and also very interested that those who seem to have good hopes of Obama (i.e. so far me and Larissa) are not American.... Over here in England, he is very popular; I expect you are already fully aware of much the British disliked Bush (an opinion fully shared by myself), so we have high hopes for his presidency. It's interesting to see that you people who are actually under him are much less keen.

Yes, it is interesting! I must admit, I'm loving these discussion (healthcare/nobel prize) that reveal more of the American worldview...so, so different to Australian. And although I don't think I would have voted for Obama, I wouldn't have voted for McCain either...

hehe, I'm totally with you about not voting for McCain! He was a lame candidate...

It seems quite revealing to me that the supporters of Obama aren't those who have to live with him. It's like the guy who is a tyrant in his own home but respected in his church...if his wife cowers when he gets near, I'd take that as evidence that no matter how good he looks in public, he's not really quite so awesome!

There are Americans who like Obama... This page has some stats about his approval ratings since he took office. His job-approval rating is currently about 53% (though it might've spiked slightly with this award - glancing through, I didn't see any post-Nobel-Prize numbers)...that's extremely low for a president in this stage of his presidency. Granted, Obama's September numbers were about the same as Bush's, but then we had 9-11 and everyone rallied behind him as they (initially) liked how he was handling things. However...the conservative side of America (I would say most of the people who have been part of these forums over the years, if not all of them) doesn't like Obama.

Oh, as for Bush, I'm not really a fan of him, either. I liked him when he got elected, but he did little worthwhile during his time in office.

_________________
...they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Acts 17:11

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:58 am

I do have doubts about Obama, don't get me wrong. I have doubts about aspects of all politicians and their policy. But I'm just not totally ruling out Obama. I think his foreign policy has a better chance of success than Bush's, but I'm not so keen on some of what I've heard about his other policies. That's always the case tho...some policies I will like, others I won't.

_________________
*Larissa*

It may not be your day, but it may be your moment

Subject: Re: Nobel Peace Prize Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:01 am

Yeah...it's his other policies that worry me the most. However, his attempts to make peace between the Arabs and Jews seem royally foolish to me. God said that Ishmael's descendants (the Arabs) and Isaac's descendants (the Jews) would always be at war.

I've got to run to breakfast, but...here's some interesting stats about who likes Obama most:

The Gallup poll folks wrote:

At 65%, non-religious Americans are the most likely of any religious group in the U.S. to approve of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as president, Jewish Americans are the second most likely group to approve at 64%, and Mormons are the least likely group to approve at 32%.

_________________
...they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Acts 17:11

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15