I was wondering what everyone's honest opinion was on the two wars the US (and many other nations) are in. Please be truthful. And on a side note who supports disarming nukes from the world?

I support Afghanistan far more than I do Iraq. From a strategists standpoint the utility of the use of force in Iraq was very low but it did create a temporary front for the war against radical Islam. Afghanistan though a long war has had far more utility.

Nukes are one of the greatest inventions ever because the presence of nukes has basically stopped large conventional wars. They have a low utility and large threat meaning nobody will use them but they ward off attackers. I truly believe millions of lives have been saved by the presence of nukes. The only problem is they have shifted the paradigm of warfare to the point that war of the people is the highest utility form. This has in turn crippled major world powers who cannot fight ideas only wars. Ideas are now the cause of conflict over political motivations. Which means our faith is more crucial than ever. Our Christian ideas now hold more power than they ever have.

On another side note I will be gone for the next week doing some raid training and shooting some missiles so you all have a good time, I'll be praying for you when I'm up at odd hours doing watch. Hope this post evolves well.

At the risk of sounding like a "ditto" post...I'd say what you did in that I support Afghanistan more than Iraq, but both. I'm not sure I can defend our presence constitutionally (at least with Iraq, since they didn't directly attack us...though they had ties to our attackers), but I do support both wars.

As for disarming nukes, I view that somewhat like gun control - if you take them away, then only the "bad guys" will have them. I hadn't thought through all you said about them having stopped lots of bloody wars, but that makes sense and seems quite true. Of course, I wish that the "bad guys" didn't have nukes and I'd like to disarm them, but generally disarmament, I'm not in favor of.




But...with all of this...I don't know much about it...so I won't be very good for conversation.

Hmmm... I'm pretty sure that most of the people from the US will have the same view, and then us others will have a different view! (kinda like the medical systems!)

I don't have the time now to formulate a reply properly, so I'm going to do so later...

^^ Haha, so true I am sure!

I don't want to comment on this too much, as I can see it becoming a potentially heated topic and I don't want to fall out with anyone. Quite simply though, I disagree with interventionist warfare. I have mixed feelings over the Afghanistan war, due to the juxtaposition of my standpoint and the fact that I have read into the conditions of life under the Taliban and have a great deal of sympathy for the individuals who had to experience it - hence any change is likely to have been for the better and good came out of the war. However, I feel that there was much less justification on humanitarian grounds for the Iraq war, and I also dislike the fact that troops have been left in Afghanistan for so long. In my view, no country should appoint itself as a guardian for the world and get involved in disputes thousands of miles away, hence although I can see the benefits of what military action has (in some cases) brought, I am still very much against the conflicts. I'm perhaps slightly more pacifist than others, but I think you'll find that my view isn't uncommon over here.

As for nuclear weapons, I agree with what Vigilance said - we have experienced a great deal of large-scale peace since their invention and hence I don't think disarmament is the way forward. Despite their horror, they have brought good in their wake (perhaps unintentionally) and each country is as scared as each other about using them. Plus, if we (or you) start disarming, then we are going to leave ourselves vulnerable and inbalanced.

I agree very little with either war, but I can see the justification for Afghanistan as more feasible than for Iraq.

To make a long story short, we had absolutely zero reason to go into Iraq. The fact that our reason for going into Iraq has changed numerous times is in itself a bit fishy, IMO. We first went in on nonexistent intel that they had WMD's, which proved to be false. We then decided we were there because Saddam had been allegedly giving money to al Qaeda, despite the fact that no such ties (and three studies) had proved he was not. Now, we're there 'fostering democracy'- whether that's our job or no.

Afghanistan was harboring al Qaeda, and the Taliban had also made threats against us, so I can see our way to Afghanistan a bit better. But at the same time, I don't think we should still be there. We've been there for quite a while now, and I think it's time to start letting the Afghanis pull their own weight and make what they can out of their country. True, they'll most likely go back to a repressive theocratic regime, but that's their natural system, and it works for them.

I really dislike the world policeman mentality that is prevalent among American lawmakers- on both sides of the issues. It's dumb, and it isn't our place to be filling that role, regardless of our justification.

On the subject of nukes- I'm still rather undecided. I haven't studied the issue extensively enough, but I would say that on the surface, it seems like nukes are a very good provider of peace, at least on the surface. Of course, now we've got Arabian nations getting them, whose track record is shaky at best, and they're quite likely to use them. I'm not sure if our nuke arsenal will be enough to divert the threat, but who knows? Like I said- I haven't studied the issue in any great detail, so I could go either way.

Yeah, I just hate wars in general - the whole concept makes me depressed, so I'm not really a good person to discuss this with! I look at any war, and whether I agree with the motives or not, I just get depressed at how many lives are lost, and the destruction caused to innocent civilians, and such... I'm just a softy who cried when she heard that NASA was going to spend another $1billion on getting another man on the moon (what a waste of money!)

But I agree with the sentiment being expressed about the "world policemen" (good phrase!) and that no one country should be able to nominate themselves for that role! As for disarmament, I agree that it would have to be EVERYONE doing so for it to have any point, but mind you, where do we stop? Everyone needs guns, otherwise it's just the baddies. Everyone needs nukes, otherwise it's just the baddies. Everyone needs biological weapons, otherwise it's just the baddies. We had to invade their country to protect ourselves, just in case they did it first... Hmm... The logic can too easily be taken to an extreme and used to validate a wide range of things.

My honest opinion?
Totally against them both. I think it was a revenge tactic on a major scale. That's my personal opinion. I was for it, but I realized that my wanting to go to war was pretty sick. I mean, kill those idiots who killed people on American soil. But that's a small number of idiots compared to war. I know it was bad, and I'm not discounting anyone's sacrifice, I just don't think war has ever settled much. Especially now. War, back in the day was pretty personal. I mean, you had to go butcher people with your arm...now, it's shoot, or worse, get them from far away. They are just a number. Or reduced to a number.
I think it's dead wrong for us to have intervened. It's not our culture. Middle Eastern culture is not US, or English, or a lot of other cultures. They work differently. We don't know all there is to know about what's going on. While there are things worth fighting for, I don't believe we should have gone in. We're trying to force people to be like us. And I hate that. Pres. Obama said something about making the school day longer so we can compete with Japan, and I hate that, too. I don't see why we all have to comform, and especially why everyone else has to conform with US standards. And that's what some of this warfare seems to be doing.

So is general international opinion against Afghanistan? That's about the most depressing thing I've heard. Now our MEU is going to get sent to reinforce that AO and when I get free time to think I'll be like "man the world hates me".

I know everyone hates how the USA gets their hands in all sorts of conflicts but it seams to present itself as the best solution in many cases. I know that the radical Islamic world will fight regardless of where we are and I'd rather be fighting them than letting them harm civilians. But it comes at a great cost of life and money to Coalition forces (I can't forget our international brothers Brits, Itals, Canadians, Estonians, Aussies, and others). I've been thinking about a solution to globalized military action for a long time and it comes down to the fact that the only other option is non-national combat groups like blackwater and such. There is just no funding for those sorts of opps. When it comes down to it the US just has the best formed assault force Marines and air deployed army troops can hit anywhere hard in a matter of a few days. The amount of innocents being killed by para military groups with extremist ideology has been rising at an alarming rate since WWII so there really is just no other option than involvement from national groups primarally the US. Warriors will always fight for innocent life even that not part of their country. We cannot fund ourselves so we must use nations to give us the weapons to fight "evil" forces. I can tell you right now we don't do enough. But Iraq and Afghanistan were good attempts at bringing justice. Personally if the US ceased to try to stabilize at least a few of these hot points I would work independently to fight the groups killing civilians and I would allow myself no national constraints.

Any thoughts on that? And thank you for expressing your opinions I like to know the opinion of people it is a big thing to the use of force.

If the war in Afghanistan was to fight the people who crashed the Trade Towers, then I'm for it totally. I don't know too much about the Iraq war.

I don't know much about either of them. I don't know why we're in there (does anyone really know?) and I don't think we should be. I don't like war and I think these wars are unnecessary and there is going to be no winner. I don't support the wars, but I do support the troops. They are just going where they're told. Yay for the troops. Boo for the wars.