So . . . we said . . .

Waltzing Rapunzel wrote:

Well... can you name a single place in the Bible where a "rapture" is mentioned? Either as the word itsself or direct reference?

RebeccaMc wrote:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Waltzing Rapunzel wrote:

Remark A: The word "rapture is not mentioned. Not that it couldn't be called that, but is the word rapture in the Bible? ( In that sense) Remark B: If I am not mistaken, the rapture is refering to an accurence in which the Christians dissapear. Cars are unmanned, everything. the rapture includes folks who aren't dead, while this verse states the DEAD shall rise first. THe rapture is supposed to be secretive, and this is clearly not going to be a secret! A trumpet will sound, the LORD Himself will shout.

(Last comment) Why couldn't that be a rapture? The dead rise first, but then those who are alive are taken up to Heaven along with Christ and those who were dead. Who said the rapture was supposed to be secretive?

Re: The word "rapture" not showing up - neither does the word Trinity, or other commonly held ideas...but, that doesn't mean that it's not true.

As to secretive, like Rebecca, I hadn't heard that it had to be secretive. However, even if it was supposed to be secretive, that could be consistent with this verse. There are times when Jesus will display to His followers, but others can't tell He's there. Like when Elijah (if I have the right guy...) was surrounded by the army, but only he could see that there was a greater army of Heaven's hosts surrounding him, too.


Perhaps the secretive comes from this passage, Luke 17:

26"(AA)And just as it happened (AB)in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28"It was the same as happened in (AC)the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

29but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30"It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man (AD)is revealed.

31"On that day, the one who is (AE)on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.

32"(AF)Remember Lot's wife.

33"(AG)Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

34"I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.

35"(AH)There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.

(And I'm too lazy to remove the footnotes. )

This could indicate that they do know what's happening or that they don't, but I don't think it necessitates one or the other.

I had wondered the same thing with "secretive." There's no reason why Christ couldn't make the trumpet audible to the Christians only. The world would still have no idea what had happened.

I'm pretty sure if only us were to hear it God would say that. - It also says that the second coming every eye will see. I'm sure that means every ear will hear too.

It could be that Christ would cal His people home and then make His grand re-entry...so, the Second Coming could be something that everyone sees and knows, though the Rapture is secretive. However, I still don't see how being secretive is a core requirement of the Rapture. It might be central to the Left Behind series, but that doesn't make it core doctrine.

I've never heard of it being secretive either. Apologies for not bothering to hunt down the exact reference, but I'm thinking of that chapter in Matthew, where Jesus says that one will be in the fields and his fellow-worker will be taken, and a woman will be grinding corn and another beside her will go. To my mind, that looks like it'll be pretty obvious when the Christians have been taken away.

Actually, the world "Rapture" IS in the Bible.....it's just hidden in this verse....

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"Rapture" is actually the English word for the Latin "rapio". This is the word used in the Vulgate, an early 5th-century Latin version of the Bible, for the phrase "caught up."

So, basically, "caught up" is the English translation for the Greek verb which, when translated into Latin, is "rapio" which is the word from which we derive the English "rapture."

Make sense? Or did I loose you in translation? Confusing, I know!

I've always understood that Christ won't actually "touch down" on earth during the rapture, but rather we here will be 'caught up' to be with him. The rapture will be quick, sudden, surprising.

The Second Coming is when Christ returns to earth, (after the tribulation) "lands" on the mount of olives (I think?) - this is the time when every eye shall see him, when he returns in power and glory as the conqueror.

doesn't it also say somewere that God has to cut the time of the tribulation in half because if he didn't even his people would be lost... That sounds like we'll gonna be going through the tribulation with every one else.

interesting, So if he lands on the mount of olives and everyone will see him. Dose that mean people in Alaska and Russia will see him because well duh he's God or are we all gonna be in Isreal... I know there is some people who believer at the end of the tribulation everyone ( that's left ) will be in Isreal.

Honestly, I think only one Person knows what's going to happen, and He's got it all figured out. As for the rest of us, everything beyond what is explicitly stated in the Scriptures is speculation. Personally, I'm not too worried about it, because God's got it under control!

I'm coming folks. I've not forgotten!

Honesty, I haven't spent a lot of time studying this. I've heard many speculations and I've even watched Left Behind The Movie, but I don't think we can say what is really going to happen. See, I think God's just given us a few hints and drips in the Bible to let us know a little, but the rest is just faith and trust. This isn't to say that studying the rapture is wrong or bad, but I myself try to be careful to not get caught up in things that are...looking for words...not as important as other things. Whether Jesus comes back first or I get taken up, who cares! I'll be ready and waiting to be with my Lord.